RELOADED EP403 | Half Million Miles of Duck Habitat: Tales of a Pilot Biologist, Part 1

Retired USFWS pilot biologist Fred Roetker reflects on his 32-year career of surveying ducks and geese across North America and shares stories of the places he saw, people he met, and experiences he amassed over that time. With nearly 500,000 air miles to his credit, ranging from the Yucatan to the Arctic Circle, some say that Fred has seen more waterfowl habitat than anyone else in North America. After listening to his stories, they might be right!

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Creators and Guests

Host

Mike Brasher

DUPodcast Science Host

What is Ducks Unlimited Podcast?

Ducks Unlimited Podcast is a constant discussion of all things waterfowl; from in-depth hunting tips and tactics, to waterfowl biology, research, science, and habitat updates. The DU Podcast is the go-to resource for waterfowl hunters and conservationists. Ducks Unlimited is the world's leader in wetlands conservation.

VO: 00:03

Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, Reloaded. We bring you the best of our past episodes. Whether you're a seasoned waterfowler or curious about conservation, this series is for you. Over the years, we've had incredible guests and discussions about everything from wetland conservation to the latest waterfowl research and hunting strategies. In Reloaded, we're revisiting those conversations to keep the passion alive and the mission strong.

VO: 00:28

So sit back, relax, and enjoy this reload.

Mike Brasher: 00:36

Everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. Joining me today on this episode and probably another episode after this is one of our guests from earlier this summer, Fred Rutger, a retired US Fish and Wildlife Service pilot biologist. Those of you that listen to the podcast will remember that we connected with Fred while he was on location up in Northern Alberta, I believe it was, conducting the breeding population survey this year. We'll get a little bit of that, but Fred has many, many stories and experiences about his time as a pilot biologist flying all across North America and looking at all sorts of waterfowl habitats, and we thought it'd be fantastic to get Fred on a couple of episodes here and tell us about some of the neat stories that he's collected over the years. So, that's what we've got for you here today.

Mike Brasher: 01:24

Hope you enjoy it. Fred, welcome back

Fred Rutger: 01:25

to the podcast. Hey, good to be here.

Mike Brasher: 01:27

You know, Fred, the other thing that I'll tell our audience here, if they hear any sirens in the background, ambulance, police, fire department, whatever, or any other kind of weird noises that you normally don't hear on these episodes, it's because we're in New Orleans at our national convention. It is, what, mid July? It is quite warm outside. We are inside recording this, but yes, still a few random noises from all the activity that's going on around here. So if you hear that, that's just part of the experience here with us.

Mike Brasher: 01:56

Fred, for those that may not have caught that earlier episode, want to start with you kind of giving a bit of a background on your history in the waterfowl management field, how you came to be a Fish and Wildlife Service pilot biologist, where you worked, you know, where you were stationed along that time, but let's go back even farther than that, kind of for my own benefit. I don't know a whole lot about your personal life prior to you coming to the Fish and Wildlife Service. Where'd you grow up? And then how did you become a Fish and Wildlife Service pilot biologist?

Fred Rutger: 02:29

I grew up 30 miles to the East of Havana, Illinois, got to know Frank Belrose back in the day when I thought that's that's what a waterfowl biologist is. I was blessed with some of that. A friend of mine, Vic Hammer, who went on to be a site manager in Illinois in a waterfowl area, the two of us growing up in a small town of 500 people as seniors, about junior seniors in high school, we went down to the state fair in Springfield, and low in the Conservation Building was always a draw. And they George Arthur, famous state biologist and and he was my first mentor. But anyway, George was working the booth that day in the conservation and he kinda had a reputation, couple kids, know, like, you know, how how are you doing, all that.

Fred Rutger: 03:18

But we walked up and he said, where are your kids from? We said, Emden. Emden, Illinois. And it was back in the day, it was famous for its pheasant hunting. I mean, it's no commercial or anything, but just people knew that that that was in the heart of the the pheasant range.

Fred Rutger: 03:33

And so that that was automatically our our our kinda in. But as we talked and he said, you guys hung out? Oh, yes, sir. And we asked him, we understand we're gonna get the point system this year. And he said, really?

Fred Rutger: 03:48

You guys know about that. Two kids from Amden. And anyway, in the next breath or two, he said, hey, you guys would like to go to Saskatchewan and ban ducks for us? I wouldn't be here talking to you had that conversation not took place, but that that set the key. And and to jump ahead to your question, I I we were lucky to band with Flyway Biologist, and that's where I first met Art Brasda, the first airplane ride, a service airplane going into the bush to band into Boreal Forest.

Fred Rutger: 04:18

So that's how it all got started.

Mike Brasher: 04:20

And when did you start with the Fish and Wildlife Service?

Fred Rutger: 04:24

In '84.

Mike Brasher: 04:25

'84, you were stationed where?

Fred Rutger: 04:28

Out to Patuxent. I was living in in Illinois on the Mississippi River to Kauka, Illinois with the Illinois Department of Conservation with the waterfowl program there. And then when I I kinda waited for that job and and when an opportunity came, we moved out to Patuxent, and and I found a place to live over on the Eastern Shore and spent two years there.

Mike Brasher: 04:55

We've had other people on the podcast talking about their experience, their what their moment of revelation where they realized that, hey, I could have a career in waterfowl ecology or waterfowl management, but a pilot biologist. When did you kinda put that together in that not only could you have a career in wildlife, waterfowl management, but that you could pair it up with being a pilot? Were you interested in aviation prior to coming to the Fish and Wildlife Service? How did all that develop?

Fred Rutger: 05:26

Not till I rode in that De Havilland Beaver with Art Brezd on a banding assignment. We we had banded Vic and I had banded a couple years after that first year. They hired us back all the way through college to come every summer. So about the second year of that, they Mort Smith Morton Smith, Louisiana native, who was head of the program at that time, they were scrambling at the end of the typically banding, you know, the the it gets better as as the month drags on. They were talking summer banding here in August.

Fred Rutger: 06:01

But as the weather starts to cool off and sometimes if it's been hot, the ducks are don't come to the bait and you get that last little push. And Art Brasda was banding at a place called Swan Lake, North of La Ronge. And anyway, Mort came down in the January where we were banding at Last Mountain Lake, and he said, we got a proposal for you guys. You wanna go back to school right away, or could you miss two or three days and go help us up in the Boreal Forest? And he said, I'll fly you in in our one eighty, and then you'll be with Brasden and Beaver, and that's where it all got started.

Mike Brasher: 06:37

But now you weren't an employee of Fish and Wildlife Service?

Fred Rutger: 06:41

No, I was still

Mike Brasher: 06:42

You're still a teenager?

Fred Rutger: 06:43

Still a junior? No, this is I was junior in college. Okay. And I came back and enrolled at Southern Illinois University, and this don't even sound correct anymore, but for $600 you could get your private pilot's license through the university. So Doc Clemstra was my advisor back then, so Clemstra said, you better go for that.

Fred Rutger: 07:07

Yeah. He knew I wasn't graduate school material. Anyway, but instead, he he he the quote, I think to quote doc, he said, you know, you you found your niche. You know, you could go on to graduate school, but this looks like it'll pay off in the end, I encourage you to go that direction. It's all worked out.

Mike Brasher: 07:23

Fred, that's a great point just sort of for, I guess, tangential discussion here, or just to mention, finding your niche is so important. There's not necessarily the right you know, there's not necessarily a single path that a person takes to be a successful contributor to the waterfowl wildlife management field. I don't know that I would say that you wouldn't have been graduate material, but the point is that there's more than one route to become a successful waterfowl manager, wildlife manager than through, let's just say, grad school, or whether it be master's or PhD, whatever. I mean, and this is a great example of that, Harriet. It is a incredibly important role within the Fish and Wildlife Service, within all of our natural resource agencies and the role of aviation in those, and I think that's just a good point to make that finding your niche, however the path is that you got there, really, really important, and and you certainly found yours, and you were a tremendous contributor.

Mike Brasher: 08:20

And I will also extend those remarks. All of your comrades, all of your fellow aviators, your fellow pilots through the years, we have an opportunity here. You and I are friends. You're here in New Orleans, and you're a great storyteller too. Know a lot of your other friends are great storytellers as well, but this is a great opportunity for us to connect with someone like yourself and to share some of the stories that all of your pilot colleagues in the Fish and Wildlife Service and elsewhere could also share.

Mike Brasher: 08:50

And so I try to do that is just kinda pay homage, pay respects to everybody else that you're kinda representing in this conversation and all the work that you're doing. So, you know, with with that kinda being being said, I guess I wanted to to move on and and sort of talk about some of your first times as as a pilot. You got your pilot license, went to work for the service. What were you doing right out of the gate? Were you on waterfowl surveys from the very start?

Fred Rutger: 09:17

Yeah. The the program had had was reduced some with retirees and and people doing that. Anyway, when when I got hired, I hired Jim Walter from Arkansas. He was the waterfowl biologist in Arkansas, no stranger at all to the duck world, and he had been flying a few surveys there. I wasn't in an aviation position with Illinois, but I I was in the waterfowl program in Illinois and doing some hobby fun.

Fred Rutger: 09:47

I gotta tell this story real quick. Don Ruch. Don Ruch, legendary goose biologist. Before I after after the banding that we talked about, I was still floating around after undergrad, and I was I was doing some aviation work, flying for some aerial photo companies and whatnot. But I was still banding geese for the state of Illinois, especially out of wintertime banding and on, living on Union County Refuge in Southern Illinois.

Fred Rutger: 10:19

But the fly Mississippi Flyway Tech meeting was in Evansville, Indiana. And I I as a technician went up with George Arthur and the others that were in anyway, I met Don for the first time. I've sat in on a Mississippi Valley population of Canada geese. The EPP is out in Missouri, Iowa. But anyway, Don, I was sat in one of his meetings and and he was the famous researcher up on Hudson Bay Coast near Churchill.

Fred Rutger: 10:49

And I'm sitting there in that meeting, he said, boy, what we wouldn't give to have an airplane in camp. The commercial operators, the smallest thing they got is a single otter, costs a lot of money. We don't need that much airplane and like to survey geese. We'll do some surveys almost weekly and we're just getting our stuff back and forth and so it really cripples us. So after the meeting, almost ran to him.

Fred Rutger: 11:14

And I said, look, Don, I'm I'm you know, I introduced myself. I I got about this much time, a few hundred you know, six, seven hundred hours. What can we and he said, let's go have coffee. And anyway, that that led to

Mike Brasher: 11:29

A lot of decisions have been made over a cup of coffee.

Fred Rutger: 11:31

Or or a glass of beer. Oh, that's true. But anyway, it all came together and I found myself with a Cessna one fifty. We modified it. It's a two place airplane.

Fred Rutger: 11:45

It's a trainer. And not really quite the bush plane, but it was static, but to do what we needed to do up there to head. We didn't have to go far working in a limited area out there on the Hudson Bay Coast, but it that was a big jump in my career that kinda set the stage to get the Flyway Biologist job.

Mike Brasher: 12:04

And so then from Patuxent, when did you when did you come to Lafayette? Was that your next stop or was there somewhere intermediate in between there?

Fred Rutger: 12:11

No. All these other things happened prior to being hired by Fish and Wildlife in permanent position flying, and so they Jim Walder and I came to work out at Patuxent, and I was there two years and moved to Lafayette. Okay.

Mike Brasher: 12:29

So then you were in Lafayette for the majority of your career, and you we're gonna get into a lot of the waterfowl discussion here in just a moment. Was there because I know that's, I think, that's where you spent the majority of your time was on waterfowl surveys. Is that fair?

Fred Rutger: 12:43

Yeah. That that's the this is the migratory bird program.

Mike Brasher: 12:47

Okay.

Fred Rutger: 12:47

And there was at the end, there was some seabirds I mean, there's still waterfowl, but actually the seabird stuff was for wind energy on the East Coast and and but but 90 plus percent of it was pure ducks and geese.

Mike Brasher: 13:04

Yeah. And they're still doing some of those surveys in The Gulf and along the Atlantic Coast associated with some of that wind energy question. Right? I think some of the folks Right. Forget what we call that.

Mike Brasher: 13:15

But anyway, they're still flying some of those

Fred Rutger: 13:16

areas Yeah. AMAPS.

Mike Brasher: 13:17

That's I

Fred Rutger: 13:18

can't I can't call that the whole, acronym now, but that's it.

Mike Brasher: 13:21

So the other the other night, I guess it was last night, we were out at dinner and we were kind of going around the table doing introductions and got to you and you introduced yourself as a pilot biologist, retired pilot biologist, and a few other things, and then doctor Tom Mormon, our former chief scientist, chimed in and added that you have probably seen more waterfowl habitat across North America than than any other person. I can't say necessarily any other person on the continent because there's a whole there's a group of people that fall into the category that you're in in terms of those pilot biologists that have flown waterfowl habitats from the Arctic all the way down through Mexico, but certainly more waterfowl habitats than anybody that's at this national convention right now. I feel pretty safe saying that and given the the the scale that you've the the the places and length of time over which you've done this, there's no doubt about that. So I want you to tell us, talk some stories here. I don't know if you're gonna have this.

Mike Brasher: 14:20

I should've should've asked it beforehand so that you could do a little bit of mental math. Do you have any idea how many miles you have flown doing your waterfowl surveys over the years?

Fred Rutger: 14:31

Yeah. Worked that up one time for for the air venture at at we used to display our aircraft at the the biggest aviation convention, Ishkosh, AirBench in Ishkosh, Wisconsin. One of the best PR events I ever worked back was when was it? Great to the Outdoors Expo. The Great Outdoors Expo, but it was on the airport.

Fred Rutger: 15:00

We could bring the airplane in, and, you know, it it was really good inter interface with all the duck hunters. And and so but but going forward from that, we actually showed the aircraft in a in a conservation role too. That was our deal. Back when we were doing the air air show or or displaying our aircraft at some of the aviation things, and that tied into the fiftieth anniversary of this whole program. So along those lines, and the numbers are escaping me now, but it's that there's about 80,000 miles of of linear miles in the in the BPOP survey, the breeding habitat survey.

Mike Brasher: 15:44

Oh, okay.

Fred Rutger: 15:45

Yeah. So there's about eight of us most years that that are doing those surveys, plus two guys in Alaska, guys and gals. And but when you divide all that up when you do the math, I figured out how many surveys it'd take to get to the moon and back, but that escapes me.

Mike Brasher: 16:05

But if so if I were to do the quick math there, you said 80,000 miles, you had about 10 crews, so that's 10,000 miles of crew. Doing that right? Something like that.

Fred Rutger: 16:16

That might be a

Mike Brasher: 16:18

little So 300,000 miles, something like that, and then, of course, you did a lot of other surveys as well. I know you I know you flew the Redhead surveys down along the Gulf Coast for a number of years. You flew the Midwinter surveys as well. Right? And you're probably involved in some research along the way as well.

Mike Brasher: 16:33

So probably getting close to half a million miles. Does that sound fair?

Fred Rutger: 16:36

Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Brasher: 16:37

It's gotta be getting close to that, and and you didn't get a single frequent flyer mile for that.

Fred Rutger: 16:44

We'd leave the airplane here and there and ride ride the airlines back and forth.

Mike Brasher: 16:48

I was mentioning to somebody that I was gonna ask you that question, and they said, well, the the follow-up question that you need to ask is that if you were to take every fish that you caught during your downtime across all those years and line them up, you know, front to back, how long would that line be? And so and that's that there is some truth to that in terms of kinda what you do in your downtime and some of where you are up in those remote locations. Know, we're gonna talk about that, you know, and you're in the Boreal Forest of Canada. You're in a float plane. You have to find a place to land, and where is it?

Mike Brasher: 17:19

It's a lake, and what's there? You have to have a place to stay, and it's a lodge, and you have to take some time off. So what's any outdoors person gonna do? They're gonna do a little bit of fishing. Remember that.

Fred Rutger: 17:29

The outfitters were really good to us over the years and and it made a lot of sense. Instead of flying and when you're working in the Boreal Forest, the towns are in in the gas pumps are a long way apart. And we'd fuel in the middle of the day and then go out and fly again. I figured it

Mike Brasher: 17:47

up

Fred Rutger: 17:47

just before this podcast. I think there was one year that we've at the end of the survey, the farthest we ever ferried for lodging was 17 miles off the survey line. Oh, wow. And we had camped sometimes on the survey line. I saw Sandy Point one time, I said, there's gotta be pickerel right there.

Fred Rutger: 18:08

Yes. Walleye

Mike Brasher: 18:08

for So you develop search images for dogs. But for

Fred Rutger: 18:13

fish said we had planned the camp that night anyway, and I'd been watching, and I said this is our spot. And we heeled the airplane in and then we continued to camp there. The the hunch was right, and we continued to camp there for four or five years after that. But but back to staying with with lodges and outfitters, The deal is if you went to the end of the line, ferried to town, a lot of times let's use Kenora, Ontario for an example. The airport's quite a little ride into town, wait for the cab, pay the cab fare, go into town, check-in, walk around to get a meal, whatever.

Fred Rutger: 18:50

When you're 17 miles or less from the guy's dock, we land a float plane, they're glad to see us, we're glad to see them. It it kinda they called us the Moccasin Telegraph. They said, hey. Were you guys after we got to know the people a year or two, where'd you just come out of? Where did you stay with our buddies down at such and such a lake?

Fred Rutger: 19:12

Yeah. We we heard heard heard they bought, you know, some new boats this year. And so we it was all fun to compare notes with everybody.

VO: 19:31

Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan and Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.

Mike Brasher: 19:47

So, Fred, we've covered a little bit of the background there. I think what I wanna do now is get into some some favorite memories, give people a flavor of some of the things that you did, some of the things that you saw, what you looked forward to every year whenever you were going up there because you did these you flew these surveys. You were one of the one of those eight pilots no. What did you say?

Fred Rutger: 20:08

Eight to 10. Eight to Depends on a year.

Mike Brasher: 20:10

Pilots in those crews that that went up there every year, flew these surveys, counted ducks. You counted ducks as you were also piloting, and you're going at for those that that don't remember, it's like you're what? 120, 150 feet

Fred Rutger: 20:24

above above the 150, but one fifty is our target.

Mike Brasher: 20:28

And looking out the side of the plane, counting ducks, and so you did this every year for thirty years or so, and it's something that I'm certain you look forward to every year. Do you miss it? I do. You it. You were the observer this year, so that's why

Fred Rutger: 20:43

people will say you went on the contract. Back in the airplane on the right side as an observer. And but, yes, it's just it's like What do you miss most? Oh, it's hot down here in Louisiana. I somebody one day, the first year after I retired, was on Lardo Lake trying to catch soccer And this guy got to talking and he said, what'd you do for a living?

Fred Rutger: 21:10

Retired? He had just retired and I told him, and I said, yeah, I gave up a turbine airplane and go travel in the continent to sit here and watch this little bobber, enjoying but life. Yeah.

Mike Brasher: 21:22

Yeah. Well, I'm I'm happy that you went back this year, were able to get back to be part of that. We'll we'll talk about that a little bit maybe maybe later on, maybe we'll get into that. We've already touched on that a little bit in that earlier episode, but remind people and tell me again what portions of the survey strata did you primarily survey over your years?

Fred Rutger: 21:40

Started my career in Southern Manitoba on the prairies, and then we tacked on, we got some more people retired and whatnot, and we kind of doubled up on areas and I inherited Western Ontario while I was still doing the Prairies. So that was my other than when I banded back prior to the job with Art Brest and the guys up in the Boreal, flying the Boreal, I got my feet wet doing Western Ontario. And then after a few years of that, up to Northern Saskatchewan and Northern Manitoba, spent most of my career there in the last eighty years or so, was up in the Northwest Territories.

Mike Brasher: 22:24

Is there a favorite among those?

Fred Rutger: 22:26

Yes, there is. I enjoyed some of the stuff we've talked about with the ability to to pop in at the Outfitters Well, and it was very remote, but yet there's enough infrastructure and enough that that there were more mom and pop camps and all this where we really sometimes are at a loss, like, where are we gonna end up tonight because we had choices? And the territories is so far flung, and the outfitters tend to be the bigger, really high end places. And so the the the I just got to know a lot of people. Was here the longest in Northern Saskatchewan, and just great people.

Mike Brasher: 23:09

Yeah. And when you think about the fact that you're one of a small percentage of people worldwide that have seen that much of such a remote landscape, untouched largely on relatively speaking, untouched landscape, able to see it so many times and travel tens of thousands of miles across that landscape, I mean, that's got to be pretty cool to look back and say I was able to do something that of I'm I'm certain it's a fraction of 1% of people on this planet have been able to do. I know it would be. That's gotta be pretty cool.

Fred Rutger: 23:42

I never got tired of just looking out the airplane window, looking at waterfowl. I mean, seeing the habitat and getting to see some of the, you know, the really cool waterfowl production areas on this continent, whether it's the Prairies, and then you get up in the North like we talked about when we did the episode

Mike Brasher: 24:03

from that Fort Chippewaia.

Fred Rutger: 24:04

Fort Chippewaia and with that delta.

Mike Brasher: 24:06

At the Bascadel school.

Fred Rutger: 24:07

That's it. So there's more. That one is a favorite, but the Saskatchewan River Delta at the Palm, Manitoba, the McKenzie Delta at the Arctic Ocean where the McKenzie dumps in Inuvik and then Tukdeukta up right on the coast. But just to see all that and see it in different light and different years

Mike Brasher: 24:28

Yeah.

Fred Rutger: 24:28

And and all, and and the ice up there this year was kind of incredible. Yeah. But no, it it was it was a good ride.

Mike Brasher: 24:36

It's one thing to visit the prairies, there's grid roads, one mile grid roads all over that landscape. It's kinda all chopped up, you know, in terms of of that aspect of it, and you can see a lot of it. And, of course, a lot of it has changed. There's tremendous agricultural conversion up there, so so you can't really see what it might have been like pre settlement. But there are a lot of places in the Boreal Forest that are largely untouched in that regard.

Mike Brasher: 24:57

Right? Still. Still. And you're able to see that. That's that's gotta be awesome.

Mike Brasher: 25:02

I'm really envious. And and it's not like you're flying over it at 35,000 feet. You're a hundred, hundred and fifty feet, and you're landing and spending an evening in so many of these different locations. What was what did you look forward to the most? What were you like could you you would see I'm I'm sure you saw a lot of unique types of wild animals, caught a lot of different types of fish.

Mike Brasher: 25:24

What did you look forward to the most whenever you were going up on those? I mean, you obviously let's make no doubt, you had a job to do. Mhmm. That was first and foremost. You always did that.

Mike Brasher: 25:33

But you're also an outdoorsman. You love fish, wildlife, the habitats. What did you look forward to the most, and what were some of your favorite experiences in terms of seeing something that you never thought you would?

Fred Rutger: 25:46

Yeah. I gotta say to people in those environments, I mean, we had back to banding, the surveys, we used the airplanes to to get around and I gotta give a shout out for Jesse and Simone Clausen in Big River, Saskatchewan. Okay. They we got I hope they're listening. Yeah.

Fred Rutger: 26:08

Well, we'll make sure that they get Yeah. Good. But anyway, the first year that I was banding there, we got we we had an incredibly good day at Spiritwood, Saskatchewan and I was working I brought my crew back to Big River. They had come down and helped because we were just knocking it out out of the park on on the provincial bait pads, the Mowers. That's another story.

Fred Rutger: 26:34

But anyway, it was getting a little darkish, but Jesse, a float plane pilot on DelaRonde Lake, he saw us land and he got in a pickup truck and his buddy, and I think they may be having a ride, he says, let's go up there and see, and I'll never forget

Mike Brasher: 26:51

They didn't know what y'all were doing there?

Fred Rutger: 26:53

No. No. He just saw an airplane land on quote his lake.

Mike Brasher: 26:57

Yeah.

Fred Rutger: 26:57

And I'll never forget the first day, I was tying the tail and the first thing out of his mouth, it's Americans yet. He saw that n number on that airplane like, who are you, what are you guys doing? And it was a little bit like, don't you know it's kinda like civil twilight

Mike Brasher: 27:15

right now?

Fred Rutger: 27:17

He said but he said, you better come down to the house some four or five miles because we had a vehicle there at at our camp where we were staying. Anyway, we drive down to the house and we've been good friends ever since. You don't. Yeah. And but he the the story with that is he had a trapper's cabin about 70 miles north of his home on the lake, and then way up in the far North, just a few miles from the territories line, he had another camp that he was involved in.

Fred Rutger: 27:49

So our joke was we could fly this whole survey out of Jesse's camps, but we got to see them this year. Garrett and I stopped there on the way to the territories and That is pretty neat. They're doing well and just How many people do you have like

Mike Brasher: 28:05

that that you would sort of repeat stops? Because I suspect there was a little bit of variation based on when you like, the timing of the survey, how much you were able to do, or were you or did you have like, I don't know, a dozen places that consistently you stopped at?

Fred Rutger: 28:23

No. It varied and and it it depended the year and how the ice broke how how things broke up. The the difference between flying in the Boreal and flying on the prairies is the prairie crews march to the beat of their airground comparison people because they have to coordinate. The good news in the North, we'd play the weather system. Let's use LaRonde, Saskatchewan as an example, sits in the middle of the province.

Fred Rutger: 28:47

So if if the if there's a system coming in from the West and you're, you know, aware of that, you go east the day before it get back and then let the system pass overnight, then you go west the next day where the guys on the prairie is like, oh, we gotta do this airground because ground crew is in that area and they can't move around like we do in airplanes. So it was it it yeah. We we had some discretion on how we flew the order.

Mike Brasher: 29:23

And when you're flying the Boreal, you had to have a float plane. Right? I mean, there was really no other option

Fred Rutger: 29:29

than that. That's the best option. Okay.

Mike Brasher: 29:31

But on the Prairie Cruise and some of those others where they have a lot of sort of terrestrial airports, are all float planes or

Fred Rutger: 29:40

is not so much. Okay. Because the key down there, you got so many municipal airports, some of them are sod

Mike Brasher: 29:47

Yeah.

Fred Rutger: 29:48

And Phil Thorpe, one of my good friends that still flies that, he he's collecting just like we did in the bush with with the outfitters, he he's got kind of a log of all the various small airstrips he's landed at Saskatchewan. So he's flying a Kodiak on big wheels right now, so it's that's that's another aspect. The guys that are working have just got back from mountain flying training. There's there's a lot there's lots of diversity, and I have to say it's it's, you know, safety first Yep. And they've got the equipment to do this job right.

Mike Brasher: 30:26

Yeah. Well, in in this field, in the field of wildlife management, aerial surveys are the most dangerous part of it. It's one of the reasons why this profession is one of the most dangerous out there, you know, among some of the things that we're familiar with. It's because of the risk that you take anytime you get up in the plane, and you've done tens of hundreds of thousands of miles in that regard, and it's it's pretty, yeah, it's pretty incredible. I I wish that I had the opportunity to experience all that you did.

Mike Brasher: 30:55

So related to the fact that you've landed at all these different locations, municipal airports, SOD airport, whatever the case may be, and then some of the lakes where you've landed on, you were telling me last night that there's some of these places where you get to know the air traffic control person. Right? And so you swing by and you say hello to them. Tell me about some of that, some of the different the people that you've met that that help you out with some of those logistics. You've talked some up in the Boreal where you're able to stay, but some of the other people, the fuel and all the type of coordination that has to occur with that, just some of those stories of your interaction with the people that make this possible.

Fred Rutger: 31:34

One of the first thing that comes to mind is for the people listening is many of them may follow some of the Fish and Wildlife Service's web pages, but there is a a page, and I don't have the address right here, but that that tells it's a block. And I I have to mention Walt. Walt Rhodes, we were talking about, you know, some at dinner last night with his buddies from South Carolina. Walt's now out in Bend, Oregon. But he's part of his history, he's an outdoor writer and we always love his blogs.

Fred Rutger: 32:14

And he started it out like, you know, his his first contact with ATC, Air Traffic Control, in L'Orange, Saskatchewan is 754, whatever he was flying. All our most of the airplanes have a three digit number, and it is the it's the 700 series. So a lot of people know who we are. But anyway, the two years of COVID, you know, there wasn't a survey and Walt just nonchalantly, hey, the range was just seven five four. We're we're 10 miles south inbound landing, and the guy came back and this is all in the in the in the in the block.

Fred Rutger: 32:59

Yeah. The guy came back and gave him, you know, like, the winds are out of, you know, out of whichever direction in the altimeter setting. Waldo, is that you? Welcome back. So, anyway, there's a lot of stories like that.

Fred Rutger: 33:13

Yeah. Oh, I got here here's a great one. We were sitting on the ramp waiting to take off in Regina, Saskatchewan one time, and the the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Caravan, was in line behind us for takeoff, and he is pretty laid back in in in on the prairies there. Anyway, when they cleared us to go or whatever, he picked up his up his mic and and said to the tower, he says, what a harbinger of spring, the duck guys are back.

Mike Brasher: 33:48

I never thought of that.

Fred Rutger: 33:49

But anyway, that way, we kinda enjoyed that.

Mike Brasher: 33:52

That's funny. Now so that that kinda brings me to another point, and I know you shared you shared at least one story about this with me just last night. You go to a lot of places, you see a lot of different people, a lot of these people you meet for the first time, they ask you what you're doing. Number one, especially when you're in Canada, this is a US government plane in Canadian airspace. I mean, that's sort of a that's a bit unusual, so there's gotta be you get a lot of questions about that.

Mike Brasher: 34:19

But then, you know, invariably, it's like, what are you doing here? Tell me about what this is. What were some of the most interesting responses that you got whenever you told them

Fred Rutger: 34:28

that you're counting ducks? Yeah. But but like, who cares? And and and we we tell them like, hey, this is, you know and and first of all, you know, the sportsmen all understand this. We interface with a lot of guys getting on float planes to go up to the lodge, but but people out and about, you're counting, know, and but I'll I'll take it back down here to think the story last night was here in The States where we'd be you're somewhere and talking to pilots in the air and what do you do?

Fred Rutger: 35:02

You can't they they when we got into the turbine airplanes, a lot of the guys said, what what are you guys doing with with this? Well, we're doing duck counts and whatnot, waterfowl surveys. Really? Like, why? You know?

Fred Rutger: 35:16

And and so there's a a lot of times this would be a younger crew member, right seat position, and the captain with more experience has been around in the charter world. He said, look, you're you're gonna go to places like Stuttgart, Arkansas and Easton, Maryland in your career because that's where he said ducks are a big deal. And the people listening to this podcast already know that. Oh, yeah. Most of them.

Fred Rutger: 35:40

And but but it's the story we were telling is look at the ramp in Stuttgart, Arkansas. The parking area during the opening weekend, the duck season, is who's who in aviation. The Gulf Streams, you name it, is parked on at Stuttgart. And so in the in the in the aviation world, crew members are Sierra Gulf Tango, Stuttgart, Arkansas. They all know where that is.

Mike Brasher: 36:06

Oh, really? What is it again?

Fred Rutger: 36:08

Sierra Gulf Tango is the identifier for the Carl Umpfrey Airport in Stuttgart, Arkansas.

Mike Brasher: 36:16

Fred, we have a lot more to talk about because I still wanna ask you about some of your most interesting observations, non duck related, whenever you were up in the in the Northwest Territories or anywhere, and I also wanna talk to you about kinda your observations of how things have changed, what are some of the more notable things that you've observed, and then I also wanna talk to you about some of your work down in Mexico. You flew a lot of surveys down there as well, and I know you have some stories there, and probably also, I just, you know, wanna wanna hear some of the some of the, like, most memorable, most scary, most uncertain, any of those types of things, you know, that we wanna get into here on the next episode. But we'll close this one out, and we'll have you we'll have you back. We'll resume here on our next episode and talk more about all the great work that you've done as a pilot biologist for the service, and then, of course, everything else that that all your other comrades, your your colleagues, pilot biologists have done. Thank you for all that, Fred.

Mike Brasher: 37:10

Thank you for being here on the podcast.

Fred Rutger: 37:12

Pleasure to be here.

Mike Brasher: 37:13

A special thanks to our guest on today's episode, Fred Rutger, retired pilot biologist with the US Fish and Wildlife Service. I appreciate all of his time through the years. We appreciate him sharing it here and sharing some of the stories of what that so unique position brings to this, brings to this profession. As always, we thank our producer, Chris Isaac, for the great job he does with these podcasts, and we thank you, the listener, for your time and spending it with us and for your support of wetlands and waterfowl conservation.

VO: 37:44

Thank you for listening to this episode of the DU podcast. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show, and visit www.ducks.org/dupodcast for resources based on today's topics as well as access to more episodes. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time. Stay tuned to the Ducks.

VO: 38:06

Stay tuned to the Ducks.